After the Arab Spring, how can countries in the region tackle corruption? The OECD's Richard Boucher talks to TrustLaw
p> MARRAKESH (TrustLaw) - Governments in the countries of the MENA (Middle East and North Africa) region need to involve citizens in reforms in order to succeed in fighting corruption, according to Richard Boucher, deputy secretary general of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).Through its Initiative on Governance and Investment for Development the OECD promotes reforms to enhance the region's investment climate and modernise governance structures. It also works towards strengthening regional and international partnerships and promotes sustainable economic growth.
TrustLaw spoke to Boucher at a U.N. anti-corruption conference in Marrakesh, Morocco where delegates from the more than 150 countries that have ratified the U.N. Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) are reviewing progress.
How can MENA countries work together to fight graft?
What they want to do is to prevent corruption with new systems of government, procurement, asset disclosure, integrity for officials … and to really strengthen the laws and the punishments for corruption, including going after previous cases and previous assets. What we are trying to do is to use the networks that we have in our regions so that they can talk to each other as they go through this and also talk to people from outside the region who have done this recently…so they can share these experiences with each other.
Do you think there is strong will among these governments to tackle corruption?
There is certainly a will in the streets to tackle it, we saw that in the Arab Spring but this is also true around the world. Good governance, having governments that deliver effective services - these are … very strong demands and I think people in government are hearing it - question is, can they succeed in doing it?
What other reforms are needed to tackle the problem?
They are looking at the whole way they handle government … and one of the key factors is to get people involved in the actual making of government policies. So that’s the difference between governments that tell people what to do and people getting involved in deciding what governments do - that's the big change, if they can make it, and putting in place the sort of consultation mechanisms … working with parliament, having citizen representatives involved in the process, I think that will be the biggest change.
What can the international community do to help?
They need money - but there's been a lot of money pledged. They need access to markets, they need to be able to export, they need tourists, they need investment - and they will do what it takes to get that … At the same time what the international community can do is share experiences, welcome them as members of the community trying to improve their policies, share their policy experiences and then, in the implementation phase, by offering experts. This is what the OECD is trying to do to say 'we know people who have put into place new anti-corruption systems, we have countries that have put in place financial asset disclosure for officials, we can have people who've just done it elsewhere talk to you'.
What does the OECD Convention Against Bribery have that UNCAC doesn’t?
They are very complementary. The U.N. convention is a much broader document that tries to cover the 'waterfront' of all the different things to do to fight corruption, it's got a review mechanism that's starting out, that's proving of some value in its first phase. I guess I'd say that the OECD convention is more advanced, it's been around for 10 years. It focuses particularly on foreign bribery. It's got a very sophisticated and rather strict implementation set of rules … you get your legal review, then you do your implementation review and now we're going through enforcement reviews - are countries really enforcing these laws? And there is a lot of pressure from the peers, from each other to make sure everybody else is enforcing the laws. So, the OECD mechanism is probably more advanced, more mature, more strict but also more focused.
Russia has recently joined the OECD convention. How hopeful are you that Russia will allow its law enforcement agencies to be scrutinised under its terms?
They'll have to - that's what they signed up to. We're already starting the first phase review - the legal review of Russia now that they’ve got the basic law that gets them in. And they'll go through the same set of reviews as everybody else. So that constant effort, that constant review and peer pressure will be the same for them as it is for all members of the anti-bribery convention.
Major exporters including Australia, Canada and Brazil were recently found to have little or no enforcement. Other than to name and shame them, what actions can the OECD take to ensure they enforce foreign bribery laws?
We do what we do all the time - we review country by country what they're doing to enforce the convention and if other countries think that they're not adequately pursuing cases or adequately structuring their law and their penalties or their decision-making process - there is peer pressure, they get pushed, they get questioned and I think that's the goal. We're 10 years down the road with the anti-bribery convention … It's unacceptable to allow bribery of foreign officials, it's not tax-deductible any more, there are laws against it, there are efforts to make corporations put in place the internal controls and there are prosecutions. There need to be more prosecutions and there need to be more strenuous procedures to check on it - that's what members of the (OECD) Working Group (on Bribery in Foreign Business Transactions) push each other to do.
If you had to make a prediction - which country do you think is most likely to join the convention?
I'm not going to make a prediction because they are a couple of countries that have just been reviewed by the Working Group and it's up to the Working Group to decide which countries should join - but there are always people at the door who want to be part of this. It's not so much the badge of honour, it's the commitment - and you make the commitment that you want to improve, that you want to be world class and that you want to make sure that your systems are not just good at one point but that they keep getting better.
Are India and China showing any interest in joining?
They are interested in the work of the Working Group. They haven't asked to become members. China just passed a law against foreign bribery last year. They are becoming more and more familiar with how the Working Group works. We hope they will decide to join … India has a law pending before parliament. Once that law passes that will first of all satisfy their requirements under the U.N. convention but that too will put them into a position of advancing their relationship with the Working Group.
MORE FROM THE CONFERENCE:
Fight against corruption needs grassroots support to have bite - report
UNCAC member states can benefit from fuller civil society participation - UN offical
Campaigners urge Morocco to clean up its act on corruption
Arab Spring “emphatic rejection of corruption” – UN official
Secrecy undermines effectiveness of world’s biggest anti-graft convention – campaigners
FACTBOX: Five key facts about UN Convention Against Corruption
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